Two things to note before you watch the video below:
- The video shows the chimps fighting. If that’s not your cup of tea, we understand.
- If you choose to watch, you must do so with the sound on so you can hear the narration that attempts to explain some of what you will see. The chimps will be loud at first but we’ll turn down the volume on the screaming and pant-hooting early on in the video.
Showing the chimps in your care fighting may not be what they teach in nonprofit PR/fundraising school, but I’m always hopeful that people can learn to understand and appreciate chimps as they are while continuing to support them and the sanctuaries that care for them. Sanctuary life is filled with fun, happy moments. To a lesser extent, it also contains unsettling, even terrifying moments. They are still chimps, after all.
As I mention in the video, we are often of two minds in this job. First and foremost, we are caregivers, fretting over each bump and scrape the chimps receive and agonizing over every decision we make with regard to their care. This is the mind we inhabit in the midst of a conflict. But we are also primatologists and enthusiastic observers of chimp behavior. We are the people that, like many of you, were glued to Jane Goodall documentaries as kids and who find the complexities of chimpanzee social dynamics endlessly fascinating. And as I watched the footage of this conflict, I felt my 20-year-old self, just entering the field, marveling at each and every interaction. Perhaps you will feel the same.
If by chance you are new to Chimpanzee Sanctuary Northwest, this group is the result of the integration of two smaller groups: A group of six, led by Cy, and a group of three, led (mostly) by Willy B. Almost immediately after their integration in 2022, Willy B accepted Cy’s dominance and established himself as the #2. But Willy B does not have Cy’s social skills, and from time to time that can get him into trouble with a few others in the group.
Similar to what is seen in the literature, the rate of conflict in this larger group hasn’t gone down all that much since the initial integration; it ebbs and flows and at times it may even be higher. But the conflicts are shorter and result in fewer injuries (I don’t believe in jinxes, I don’t believe in jinxes, I don’t believe…). This conflict was unlike most in that it lasted a long time; as I say in the video, this is likely because of Gordo’s unique inability to calm down. Prior to the integration of these two groups, Gordo would occasionally get this upset with Cy. Cy, having nearly unlimited patience, would just let himself be chased by Gordo until Gordo eventually wore himself out. But that was a low-ranking male venting at the alpha, who clearly felt no threat to his own safety or status. Here, the relationships between the lower-ranking males is less well-defined. And thus the stakes are higher.
There’s an important caveat that I should mention here: I describe some of what I think I’m seeing, but any time I read a matter-of-fact description about relationships and behaviors as complex as those in chimpanzees, my BS detector starts to go off. Half the time we just don’t know or we drastically oversimplify things. So let me admit that up front. And this, I should add, is with the benefit of instant replay and slow motion—now maybe you can see why we say we don’t always know what happened in real time when the chimps get in fights.
Oh, and another one: Cy gets top billing in this blog post and he certainly has the most influence over the outcome, but boy that Honey B has some guts. And there are so many other interesting interactions that I didn’t touch on, many of which are also influential. Alpha males always get the headlines while the females quietly do much of the work. But this alpha sure did put on a show.
This video also doesn’t include what happened after the fight, which in some ways is the most interesting and important aspect of chimpanzee relationship formation and maintenance.
I could probably go on all day about this so I’ll stop here. Feel free to ask questions!
I appreciated your sharing this. It was amazing what Honey B and Cy did here.
I am often watching gorillas with people, and, while gorillas are certainly calmer than chimps, there is an occasional confrontation, always short, that visitors find alarming.
And I give my best interpretation of what is going on.
Today the sister of the dominant female had kind of had it with being displaced and expressed herself vocally and with body postures in no uncertain terms. Messages were conveyed both ways without any biting or punches thrown, and both backed off fast enough that the silverback didn’t even need to come over.
I also believe there’s a big difference between chimps and gorillas, and I see chimp interactions as quite scary.
This video is fascinating. Instructive.
So pleased with Honey B, whom I’ve always admired for her pluck.
When I see any interactions, especially like these (and, yes, it was amazing to see them all but ignoring the grass issue!) I think about how it must have been for Jane Goodall, a young woman, in their habirat and without much knowledge about them. She was so lucky, I think, to have come out alive and whole, and so brave to remain and to bring us all so much knowledge.
Thank you so much for sharing this, J.B. I find the CSNW chimps endlesslessly fascinating, but never more so than after viewing this video 3 times! My admiration for Cy continues to grow as well.
Thank you for the extremely informative commentary JB. It made it so much more interesting to watch as I would have struggled to even work out who some of them were with the fast movement. Honey B, go get them!
Didnt know Luckys blanket car could go off road, hilarious!, I laughed out loud.
And two questions
So was Terry number 2 before Willie B came along and if so could that cause trouble for Willie?
Did Willie B just slot into that position because he gave way to Cy, or has he had to make his way to that position?
Yes, I would say that Terry was #2 prior to the integration. If, for example, Cy was to be pulled long-term from the group for medical reasons, we’d have to think carefully about the group because Gordo and Terry could team up to oust Willy. But as long as Cy is looking out for him, Willy B is fine. When Cy and Willy B first met, they groomed and played but eventually they had a brief fight. Cy actually got a nasty cut on his thigh. They were sussing each other out for a couple weeks after that and then one day Willy submitted to Cy and they have had that relationship ever since.
Thank you JB
I wish to compliment the, excellent, narration, pace, and descriptions by JB. The arrows helped, and, the commentary about, each, individual was, so, helpful. I, still, do not comprehend what “Gordo” was so upset and why “Willy B” needed to shielded? (since you said we should feel free to ask questions) I have to watch it a second time.
The, most, interesting was the size, calmness, and, quick, reactions of “Cy” to keep track of everyone else! “Cy”‘s desire to referee was amazing! I have, always, appreciated “Cy”‘s studiousness while he reads his magazines, so, now, he is my hero! He is wise, agile, and, a leader, for sure!
Terry and Gordo were both upset with Willy B, probably because Willy B was displaying and being intimidating inside. Cy stepped in to ensure that no one could gang up on Willy B since Willy is not as tough as he seems when push comes to shove.
Thank you so much JB for allowing us to be part of a very real part of the chimps life. The view into this behavior is actually an encouraging thing because it reminds everyone that they still are allowed to experience som of their natural behavior even though they are in sanctuary. Please do more of this…we all learn so much from you.
I agree with Rosemary. While the conflicts may be uncomfortable to watch it’s also reassuring that they are allowed to demonstrate normal chimp behavior be that conflicts due to frustration or comfort in their home environment. Both are facinating, thank you JB.
I will need to compliment “Honey B” who took charge and tried to send everyone on their way. I did not realize that “Dora” needs, a security, blankey and, so does “Lucky”. She, certainly, can propel herself, quickly on her “magic carpet”. I was not upset watching all of this displaying and screaming. It was, truly, fascinating.
Dora doesn’t rely on blankets all that much inside, but she hasn’t gotten comfortable being outdoors yet so she may have needed the blanket. It reminds me of the day Mave moved to CSNW – she also had blanket for security though we haven’t seen her do that since.
That was fascinating to watch on video, but probably terrifying in real time. Thank you for sharing this, JB. It isn’t always sunshine and roses in our world, so it’s nice to see a little bit of the other side of chimp life.
I hope Cy and Honey B got a Triple *****portion for Dinner- Risking it All for the Love of Family:innocent:
Cy ….. I could just smother you with kisses and hugs
I love Willy B, he tries his best. I know Cy protects him but is there concern that he will run out of patience with Willy starting fights one day and not defend him? could that have a domino effect interms of who backs who?
I feel like, while there may be momentary annoyances, No. 2 is there to stay. An alpha needs backup, and backup means being able to count on someone
Yes, that’s always a possibility. And it’s something we have to think about if Cy is ever temporarily or permanently not part of the group. But Willy has so far made it in a group of nine, which given his social skills is a big accomplishment, so maybe he deserves more credit than we give him.
Thank you, J.B. for an thoughtful, informative explanation of what we watched. I’ve done primate observations for several years both at public exhibit areas inside zoos and at behind the scenes areas with apes and monkeys.. I know that it can be quite dramatic and loud and heart pounding for those observing, but you trust that all will come out well, as I think it certainly did today with Cy’s group.
I don’t know where I got this quote, maybe it was you JB or it was someone like Frans De Waal. But it is exactly what you want to see as the end result with chimps — “The Art and Science of Restorative Grooming to Re-establish Domestic Tranquility.”
All I know is that if I lived in the United States of Chimpland and there was an election in 2024 I’d vote for Cy. He’d make an excellent president. He is a proven leader, strong, calm, diplomatic, assertive, peaceful, intelligent and kind. Observers should avoid bias, but CY is my all-time favorite at CSNW. And if during his administration Cy had to pick a First Lady I think we know who that would “B.”
Just one question about Jamie’s group while they were observing. Was there a lot of vocalizations coming from them or did they quietly watch the drama unfolding with the their neighbors?
With all of the screaming I coudn’t tell you exactly what vocalizations Jamie’s group was making, but I’d imagine they let out some alarm calls, pant hoots, or threat barks.
Oh, if only Cy could be in the ballot and become president! He is well-read, has no felony indictments, and has much, much better hair…
Cy would get my vote!
Thankyou J B for sharing this video with us. It really shows how the chimps’ personalities and leader/follow instincts come into action in conflict. On a scale of say 1 to 10 how combative was this behaviour and what happens if the conflict became dangerously violent. Would you need to use say a tranquilliser dart in that situation?
At least in this case all’s well that ends well with the chimps settling down to their dinner!
I would say this was an 7 for duration and a 4 for severity. When they are really mad or scared, fingers, toes, and ears can go flying. Tranquilizer darts are actually of no use during conflicts, first because they take up to 10 minutes to take effect and second because it would leave the sedated chimp vulnerable to attack/counter attack. So if we really felt like a chimp’s safety was in jeopardy, we would try to close doors between the combatants as they pass through the chute or into the building. The reality is, however, that humans have very little control once chimps start fighting.
Many thanks for the informationJ B, which I appreciate especially regarding the non use of tranquilliser darts.you certainly have all the possibilities covered in the event of extreme chimp conflict and that’s as good as it can get.
Oh my! I’ve read the blog and all of the comments so far, so here I go! Can’t wait to watch this video. Thank you JB. I think your group of supporters are very intelligent and well informed in chimp life and appreciate that sanctuary life isn’t always or even ever tranquil. I think they all appreciate seeing both sides. Seeing the reality of chimp life. As always, it is fascinating.
That was amazing! It’s good to hone our chimpanzee recognition tools. I have work to do there. From the perspective of the camera, I found it very easy to recognize Rayne especially. ok. goin in for round two. (I wanted to watch it on my TV but the video isn’t showing up there yet)
Just want to echo others’ appreciation for sharing this video and detailed, informative commentary! I so appreciate getting to learn from y’all. :pray:
Wow!! What an interesting blog. Given his history, how do you suppose Cy learned to be such a diplomat? I am assuming he had no role models if he was caged for research. Do you think he read about it? Cy looks to be the largest of the group. Does size figure into the alpha status? Certainly, he seems to have the perfect disposition. However he does it, I am really impressed.
That’s a good question. All of the chimps in Cy’s group were raised in cages and in a laboratory nursery, and as they got older they were housed in pairs or trios in cages suspended off the floor. They were released from the lab as young adolescents, and then lived in small groups at the Wildlife Waystation. So, they all had similar opportunities (or lack thereof) to learn how to be chimps. I think, like humans, some are just born with more of the skills that make for good leadership – patience, fairness, empathy, sociability, etc. Size matters to some extent, but it’s only part of the equation.
Wow J.B. That was excellent. Very fascinating – with your narration and clarity we have all learned so much. As always… thank you. and all the staff and volunteers for being there every day knowing that you may, at any moment, experience an even higher level of conflict. It takes a special breed of person to do what you all do ..
Thank you J.B.
That was so great, I feel like I got to watch it with you. The slow motion was so helpful, along with your expert commentary.
I so admire Cy, the way he stands his ground and Won’t back down ( I can hear Tom Petty) He’s a true leader.
And what a fearless little spitfire Honey B is !
I would sign up for your classes anyday, professor Mulcahy !
Thank you so much, J.B. I found this video fascinating. Many comments I wanted to make have already been posted but I must say that I was surprised by Honey B and her role in the melee ( in the bray no less) and I’m so proud of her.
Thank you JB. Why do you think Willy B wasn’t fighting back?
I could be totally wrong, but to me, Willy B. is like an akward teenager who has no idea what his behavior does to others….
When he sat on the boardwalk it looked to me that he was a little overwhelmed with the reaction of his familymembers……”Oh but I really did not mean to upset you”.
I tend to think of Willy B as having less executive function than the other chimps. If an impulse says “Hey, let’s hit Rayne” or “Let’s steal Dora’s apple”, he acts on it without thinking of the consequences. And when it comes down to it, he’s not a very tough chimp. He really doesn’t like to engage in conflict beyond the normal “guy being a jerk” kind of behavior. And as Marianne says, it’s like Mr Hyde acts out and then Dr. Jekyll has to deal with the consequences.
Oh, if only Cy could be in the ballot and become president! He is well-read, has no felony indictments, and has much, much better hair…
I couldn’t agree with you more, Tobin and I don’t even live in America !( although I do love your country).
Ha!Ha! Yes, why limit it to the United States of Chimpanzees……I hear there’s an opening for the top job coming up…..Cy for President, Yay!
Bit late with my reply….couldn’t decide whether to watch this or not, but JB did his usual excellent job of explaining the behaviors. Doesn’t Willie B ever learn that it’s his showing off that starts trouble? Cy is the consummate leader….all the right attributes including but not relying on his size.
Today’s video brings to mind a Public Service Advertisement that Jamie provided a half-dozen years ago.
As for Gordo’s behavior on display, I wouldn’t worry too much…his grievances would not be out of place at Columbia or Harvard or a similar finishing school for the privileged and morally decadent.
Thank you for the lead in to the video, great set up for what followed. I learned many things I didn’t know such as Gordo not readily calming down. Interesting personalities in the Boys Club. Kindhearted Super Hero Cy, dear under socialized (and perhaps misunderstood) Willy B, and Gordo who remains aroused. And Terry. Your description helped me to focus on details I wouldn’t have noticed. And your description during the video playback is fascinating. I might have a question but I need to view this a few more times to be sure I am understanding everything. There is so much going on all at once!
I have to state how blown away I was with Super Girl Honey B sticking up, fiercely might I add, for her friend Willy B. She went beyond being plucky! If I had a question it would be about her getting into a tussle while defending Willy B. But, I need to take it all in again.
Thank you J.B. for this lesson in chimpanzee behavior. I think my admiration and respect for each individual rose to great heights after seeing this.
As always you think of us and include our devotion to the chimps. Hopefully tomorrow is a calm day. many thanks for sharing. There power is amazing physical and mindful.
Thank you, JB, for sharing this insight into the lives of the chimps of CSNW. I feel fortunate to have these opportunities to learn more about chimpanzee interactions. It is especially meaningful for those of us who follow the blog daily and, thanks to the generous CSNW staff have come to know personality traits of our chimp friends, as we see them work through a tense and difficult event. I was already impressed with Cy but wow, just WOW. Keeping the peace so everyone is safe and all the while available to give reassurances. And Honey B. I always, always enjoy the blog. (Well, some give us sad or scary news but it’s about individuals I care deeply for so want to know.) This is one I’ll long remember. Makes me wish we had kept the ‘reaching out for reassurance’ like I wish we had retained opposable big toes.
As others have noted, very interesting ties and reactions in the group displayed here. First of all, gotta love that Cy! And wonder why he would defend Willie B so protectively. I’m also very curious what happened leading to this display and wonder if it was one of Willie B’s typical outbursts. I’m not surprised at Honey B’s brave reaction at all because I always thought she was the leader of their original group! But why did Rayne get involved? She is so intelligent! What did she know about this situation that we don’t? Even the more timid girls were out there! Gordo is a sulker, who knew? The whole scenario was just so fascinating. A very vocal group but happily no real fighting. Maybe they were just “h’angry”? (like me sometimes, hungry and angry at the same time!)
I wondered if some of the excitement was mealtime excitement, too
Thank you, JB, for sharing it and for the play by play!
Numbers are nothing against the paired strength of Willy B and Cy! Interesting that that bond has formed across groups and is staying fast. I’m surprised Terry isn’t more miffed than Gordito. Cy taking that whole crowd on looked like a street fighter in a movie, goodness! It felt like a scene from “Roadhouse”!
I loved Gordo’s tantrum/hissy fit next to the boardwalk. No other word for it, his rage just took over his whole body. And I thought I noticed Lucky scootching at 8:25, and then she grabbed the blanket.
Like many, I’m surprised at how long Honey B stayed out there. If this is the fight from a while back, I thought she’d just gone out, slapped someone, and gone back in. This was incredible! Particularly since we often see Honey B’s behavior as a little “off” from everyone else’s–here, she exhibited true chimp behavior. New merch idea–a Honey B tshirt with “Fight like a girl” on it!
I’ll go back and rewatch this.
When you said Gordito doesn’t get reassurance from the others, I briefly thought “Maybe he can go to the other house! Burrito would have another dude…he could hang with Foxie…”
I’d buy that T-shirt. Great idea!
Fascinating! The commentary was wonderful and very helpful in understanding the dynamic! i loved the peacemakers! Thanks for sharing
Another question, JB–when Cy is fending off Gordo and Rayne’s last charge, is that Honey B on the right, chasing off big Terry?
Really interesting and insightful narration of the conflict. Obviously, it was really intense and stressful for everyone involved, and I’m glad it ended without any injuries. (Although I’m sure Jamie’s crew appreciated the extra enrichment considering how much they love watching neighbor drama.)
Rayne seemed to be going after Willy B pretty hard for a bit. I thought they seemed to have a bit of a friendship going? What was up with that?
The part with Rayne surprised me, too, for the same reason!
And Jamie’s group was definitely having fun with it! Note how someone is hanging on the caging and rocking…though it might be Annie, since that’s her move, but could be Foxie…they must have been making some noise for sure: “fight!fight!”
That’s the fascinating part about chimp relationships: Rayne seems to have the most empathy for Willy B’s awkwardness, and she often tries to help him through moments when he might get himself in trouble. And as I was publishing the blog, she and WB were playing and laughing in the front rooms. But old cliques die hard, and when push comes to shove, Rayne might just have to support Terry and Gordo and go against the new guy causing trouble. You can’t really understand chimp social dynamics until you’ve seen them in all different contexts.
Thank you J.B.
Very interesting to watch with you narration. I am glad nobody was physically hurt, although some souls might have been brused.
I commented above that it looks to me Willy B. is just akward and has no real idea what his displaying does to others. He just sat there as a little boy while “daddy CY” chased away the bullies. Good and wise Cy.
And so good to see Honey B. defending her “brother”. What a feisty little woman she is!.
QUESTION: I was wondering about Gordo.
Why did nobody come to reasure him?
Does he not have any friends?
Mora just did not get involved as I noticed….also very wise.
Forgive me but I am going to copy and paste a reply from Facebook where someone asked the same question:
That’s one of those questions that I can’t answer. Gordo sometimes has a peripheral role in the group…while the others groom together, he’s often off to the side, though he does have good one-on-one relationships with some in the group.
I’ll also add this: Sometimes I find it helpful to think in terms of middle school behavior. If a kid is acting emotionally or in a way that others think is inappropriate, some kids might respond kindly, others might avoid them, and others might even find it the perfect time to tease them. I think we do this as adults, too, but it’s easier to acknowledge the lesser qualities we displayed as kids :slight_smile: But I should reiterate that I really don’t know.
Thank you J.B. for taking the time to answer all the questions. ( or do you have more time now since your righthand buddy Jake is in the picture :joy: ).
I would not know about the pasting because I am not on all those social medias…..very peacefull…
Thank you J.B.
Very interesting to watch with you narration. I am glad nobody was physically hurt, although some souls might have been brused.
I commented above that it looks to me Willy B. is just akward and has no real idea what his displaying does to others. He just sat there as a little boy while “daddy CY” chased away the bullies. Good and wise Cy.
And so good to see Honey B. defending her “brother”. What a feisty little woman she is!.
QUESTION: I was wondering about Gordo.
Why did nobody come to reasure him?
Does he not have any friends?
Mora just did not get involved I noticed….also very wise.
Thank you for providing the narration. This was so fascinating, and a bit terrifying, to watch. I have a couple of questions. Why did no one reassure Gordo? I felt bad for him. And does Honey B just take it upon herself to squash the beef, or is she the defacto female “alpha” (for lack of a better term)?
Please see above regarding Gordo. As for Honey B, she has an unusual role in the group. The boys like to pick on her because she screams so much. We usually hear at least one screaming session in the morning when one of the boys tramples over her morning nest with a display and she chases after them. But among the girls, she is fairly dominant. Still, she likes her alone time and also preferes human company at times. In this conflict, I think she just wanted to defend her old buddy (despite the fact the he can be a jerk sometimes) and because she is fearless and has no concern for her personal safety, she just jumped right in. By the way, I think we should add “Squash the Beef” to the “Fight like a girl” Honey B t-shirt proposed above.
One motto on front, one on vack! With the “Oh, yoy wanted to open THIS door (with the toy bolt in the track)?!” :sweat_smile:
Thank you for this fascinating blog. We’re all so grateful no one was hurt but it is nice to know the chimps have the freedom to express themselves. The video and commentary is enlightening.
I have a question about Gordo. That moment when he is having a short sort of panic attack, he seems to be spasming (it broke my heart). Does that just happen when chimps get very nervous, or is it a particularity of Gordito? Could you give us any more insight into what was happening?
Thank you so much for this amazing video, I’ve watched it a couple of times already, replaying in slow motion. So informative! Looking at conflict gives us blog readers a more complete picture of these chimp individuals we love.
I jsit took it as the chimp equivalent of kicking one’s feet and fists on the floor…:person_shrugging:?
Some chimps are more prone to these fits or tantrums but we’ve seen almost all the chimps display them at some point. It’s when they reach the point of being overwhelmed with emotion, especially when they feel ignored or betrayed in the heat of a fight or argument.
Thanks so much for this, J.B. We got to see conflict in past blogs – for instance when groups were introduced to each other – but the blow by blow narration and the identifying arrows, make this the most illuminating of all.
Cy is my hero! And Honey B the Robin to his Batman!
and reasons like this are why Cy is a fav of mine :blush: